P-Page Logic at ASA MOKAN Wichita Collision Chapter

The ASA MOKAN chapter in Wichita, Kansas held their monthly meeting Tuesday, June 23, 2009.  We had a speaker, Craig Baltz, explain the importance of following the procedure pages of estimating systems.

Many shops have been denied items that they originally had written on their estimate.  As mentioned in the meeting, many times the items may have just be worded incorrectly.  By simply taking a little time to look at the p-pages and correctly wording non-included items, the estimator could add profit to every estimate.  You may be surprised how many dollars are unclaimed.  

One example mentioned was replacing a bumper cover.  Do you charge R&I, R&R, or Overhaul when replacing a bumper cover?  If you just charge R&R or R&I, you may be cutting yourself short.  I have some mixed feeling about which way is correct, but I’m open to explore the possibilities.  I certainly do not claim to know it all.  Another example is aiming headlamps.  I’m sure we all add time to aim headlamps in a front end collision.  However, do you charge mechanical or collision time for it?  Again, I’m not sure that I would charge mechanical time for that operation, but it is something to think about.  I believe we need to consider all possibilities.  If we did charge mechanical time for the operation, we’d add additional dollars to the shop profit.  

Other non-included operations addressed were masking jambs.  This is something that you have to do.  Are you getting paid to do it?  One shop owner said he gets paid for that most of the time.  Other’s said that they rarely get the insurance companies to pay for this operation.  What about covering the car to prevent from  over spray getting on it.(bagging)?  Do you get paid for that every time?  I’m not going to mention all of the topics mentioned; however, you may not realized how many dollars you are losing.  

One concern keeps being addressed at the meetings, which is proper documentation.  I think many shops are aware that they’re performing many operations that they’re not getting paid for.  However, shops may be tired of asking for non-included items, just to have them removed by the insurance companies.  Some feel the constant fighting, arguing, and negotiating with insurance adjusters is not worth their time.  I feel your pain, but if you will follow a few suggestions, it may be easier than you think to get paid for these items.  First, you have to ask for the non-included items.  If they pay it, great!  If not, you may consider documenting it and filing a complaint with the Kansas Insurance Commissioners Office.  Allow them to investigate the situation for you.  If you’re in the right and have good documentation, you stand a good chance to be paid for it. One member made an excellent point at the last meeting, which is, the insurance commissioner needs facts, not war stories.  Therefore, provide them with documented facts.  You may not get everything that you ask for every time, but you will never get it if you don’t ask for it.

A Few Suggestions: 

Use the P-Pages

First of all, you need to know what items are not included in an operation.  To do this look in your p-pages.  There is a website that have all the different estimating systems p-pages on it.  Take some time to look at your systems information.  It may take a little time on your part and we’re not going to change everything overnight, but start one step at a time.  One member suggested trying to find one non-included item to add to each estimate. That sounds like a good start to me.  If you would like to pursue this, you can visit the website with the p-pages at  www.degweb.org   

Ask for it

Include the item on your estimate.  It may be better to add a different line for each item.  The reason many shops may not get paid for items is because they clump things together.  Sure, it makes logical sense, but the insurance wants to see everything itemized.  If the insurance adjuster claims that they don’t pay for that operation, you may choose to show them that the item is a non-included operation that is required to properly perform the repair.  If they still refuse to pay you for the operation, you may consider filing a complaint with the Kansas Insurance Commission’s office.

Filing your complaint with the Kansas Insurance Commissioner’s office.

I called the Kansas Insurance Office and they said that a complaint can be filed one of two ways.  You can use their online form to submit the complaint or mail the complaint.  You can call them to assist you, but the complaint can not be verbal.  You must use documentation.  They said repair shops are welcome to file a complaint; however, if the insured (customer) files a complaint as well, this will strengthen the case.  Here is their contact information:

Online:      www.ksinsurance.org/

Phone:      1-800-432-2484

Mail:          Kansas Insurance Department
Consumer Assistance Division
420 SW 9th Street
Topeka, KS 66612

Make A Difference in the Collision Industry

Get Involved

The best way to make a big impact is to get involved.  Bigger things can happen when many business leaders come together.  There is strength in numbers.  Join an association like ASA.  They are here to help the collision industry succeed.  In fact, they will be in Washington, D.C. fighting for the industry in July.  They’re working hard on topics like blend within the panel. You may also consider joining a collision repair school’s advisory board.  This is a great way to assure that schools produce qualified technicians for the collision industry.    

Continue Your Education

In Donald Trump’s new book “Think Like a Champion”, he says “Being a know-it-all is like shutting the door to great discoveries and opportunities.”  Another statement he makes in his book that I agree with is “The more you learn, the more you realize what you don’t know.”  That is very true for me.  With the complexity and changes being made to today’s vehicles makes this statement ring true to this industry.  Therefore, I encourage you to stay up-to-date by continuing your education, which is another good reason to join ASA.  I learn something new at every ASA meeting that I attend.  I-CAR and Masters Education Services also have some outstanding classes to choose from.  Don’t shut the doors, keep an open mind and be willing to learn something new.

Social Network

Working at a college, I realized that students communicate different than they used to.  Drew Barrymore puts it in perspective in one of her movies.  She says something like, “people don’t go get their hair done to impress guys today, they update their profile page.”  This sounds funny, but it’s kind of true.  There is a lot of time spent online.  I realized if I was going to connect with students, I needed to go where they spend most of their time.  However, in the past few years, young and old, have consumed the social networks like FaceBook.  This can be another great resource to network and stay up to date with what is going on in the collision industry.  You may consider checking out the new social network www.collisionhub.com   There you will find groups for students, educators, shop owners, and more.  

I encourage all business leaders involved with the collision industry to join us for our next meeting.  We’d like to hear your concerns and suggestions.    

Our next ASA meeting is August 4, 2009.  Tony Molla with ASE will be our guest speaker.  This is your chance to get involved.  We hope to see you there.  

For more information about joining ASA MOKAN contact our Wichita Chapter President:

Brad Shelton, Shelton Collision Repair

316-788-1528 /  [email protected]